Hill's B/D


nerdrock

New Member
Sadie, my nearly 8 year old mini has, among many other things, dementia. She's a bit young for it, but given that she also has epilepsy and potentially other neuro issues, we figure she is aging faster than normal. She has been getting terrible lately, I think we're entering a "bad" phase (she has good and bad days/weeks/months). It starts with the whining, nearly constantly, to the point where we have to put her in her crate or our bedroom on the other side of the house just so we can't hear her. She will sit there, stare at you and whine. She will stop momentarily if you call her name, pick her up or interact with her in any way, but will start again a few seconds later (unless she's playing). She'll go through a "short" period of whining, which is followed by a longer period of licking. Sounds not so bad right? It's only slightly better than the whining. If she's anywhere near you, she will lick you. Constantly, until you remove her. When you remove her, she'll start whining. She's clearly anxious about something during these times, but we have not been able to figure out what. During these periods she will also pace, walking or running around but not doing anything in particular. We support her as best we can during these times and take "breaks" from her to keep our own sanity. Usually when we put her in the crate she'll settle and eventually go to sleep for a bit.

We were considering medication at first to help her get some relief but given my work schedule and my SO's forgetfulness, I have serious doubts that she would get the medication consistently. Same with supplements.

A few coworkers and I have been discussing diet lately and the different ones that are available. We mainly sell Royal Canin at our clinic (no we don't get kick backs or anything like that :)) so I don't have a lot of experience with Hill's products, other than Sadie can handle their C/D formula but can't have RC Urinary SO. I was wondering if anyone had any experience or has tried Hill's B/D before and if it helped their pet at all. I'm strongly considering switching her over to see if it helps, but the only experiences that I have been able to dig up online have been on the Hill's website and other sites like Dog Food Advisor (which is obviously very anti-veterinary diets).

TL;DR - Anyone have experience with Hill's B/D they'd mind sharing?
 

JPsMOM

New Member
Honestly i have yet to see anyone on here that is a fan of veterinary diets. Anyone feel free to chime in and correct me if i am wrong...maybe i missed it. To my knowledge and from what I have seen Dog Food Advisor doesnt seem to be anti-anything...just facts and figures about what a dog needs vs what a dog food does or doesnt provide. My first instinct would be to put her on something more natural, but i have also never dealt with a dog having serious health issues. Could any of her issues have originated from her food would be what I would ask myself.

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Nell

Member
I don't know anything about this brand (am in UK) but my advice would be to feed as natural as you can. I do worry about all the additives, colourings and junk in some of the so called special brands and I am not a fan of dried dog food either. I feed only raw meats, fish, vegetables and brown rice etc. I try to use meats intended for human consumption as it is a higher grade. Dachshunds are small dogs and you can feed less if it is better quality so it really doesn't work out all that expensive, I get whatever is reduced from the supermarket. I also save any leftovers for the dogs to add variety.

Makes sense to me to try to cut down on additives, colourings and processed food, give it a go, I am sure you will see some benefits.
 

nerdrock

New Member
I used to feed prey model raw, commerical raw and the all natural kibbles - I even worked for one of the brands for a while. The longest part of that time was on prey model raw. Our cats were on raw too. She did ok on all of them, but has done the best on prescription kibble, probably because of all of her issues. Not to mention with our schedules, # of pets and lack of freezer space, raw just isn't feasible. I'd have to buy food every day for them, which in addition to being an annoyance for me, would take away more of the small amount of time that I have with them (SO usually works from home and doesn't drive, so can't get food for them without me).

A partial list of Sadie's issues:
Epilepsy
IVDD
Beef allergy
Bladder issues (UTIs every 3-4 months for about 4 years, struvite/calcium oxalate stones about 4 years ago)
Neuro Issues
Environmental Allergies
Potential Dementia
Intermittent Dehydration (even on raw)
Arthritis
She has trouble with foods with high sodium (which is why I want her off the c/d)

I also won't feed anything with duck in it due to Fynn's allergy or wet because Bruce can't tolerate it. Those two are big enough issues that I can't budge on for the health of the other dogs.

Expense isn't really an issue. I can order most of the "premium" foods from work as well so it isn't a convenience problem with that either. I just find for her, the prescription foods have worked the best. I had read some positive things about the effect that b/d has on dementia and those types of issues so thought it might be worth a try for her. I just wanted to see if anyone else had tried it and what their experience was. I have asked some of my vet and tech friends what their experiences have been, most of the doctors had pretty high reviews, still waiting back while the tech friends check in with clients.

Despite what many people think, the clinics do not get kickbacks from Hill's, Royal Canin, etc. At least not around here, anyways.
 

nerdrock

New Member
I thought I'd update this since we've now tried the food.

Sadie has been on b/d for roughly 1 month now. There had been some slow progress but she had started to plateau. Her improvement on the food was enough that we have decided to continue with it.

We have also started her on selegiline (anipryl) as well. She started it a few days ago and is on the lowest recommended dose, lower than what most start out on (she's on 0.2mg/kg). I have seen a huge improvement already. Much less pacing, she settles well and is sleeping through the night, the constant whining is nearly gone and she seems more alert and happy.

Not sure about the bathroom issues yet. Bruce, our shepherd, let them out of their crate yesterday when we were gone and someone pooped on the floor, but we're not sure if it was her or Fynn. The good news is that other than the poop on the floor and Fynn peeing on the garbage can, they didn't get into anything like they normally do. We're guessing that they were loose for around an hour.

I realize that the food does not have the best ingredients, and it does smell quite a bit like hay, but she likes it, eats it well and it really seems to help her. Along with the medication, she will hopefully continue to improve and have a much better quality of life than she has had for the past year or so.

If anyone is having any of the same issues, I do definitely recommend trying the food for at least 4-8 weeks (the minimum time to see improvement, although we saw some within 2 weeks) and speak with your vet about selegiline. We were starting to contemplate euthanasia before we tried this because she was definitely not happy, it was stressful for her and us and nothing we had tried was helping. The combo of meds and food is pricy, but well worth it in my opinion.

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GJBain

Member
At this point who cares about the food quality. She likes it, is eating and seems happy. I say keep feeding it. Our 17 year old started getting dementia at a 16.5 years old. Wondered around aimlessly mostly because she had a hard time seeing.
 

nerdrock

New Member
Oh I definitely don't care about the quality at this point!

One thing that I've noticed, at least with my dogs, is that they are actually doing better than they have done in years on "crap" food compared to the holistic/premium/raw diets. The boys (standard dachshund and king shepherd) are both on Royal Canin Dental food. They have great muscle tone, great energy, both are maintaining their weights (both have incredibly high metabolisms) and are just overall healthier than they were on other diets. I know they aren't for everyone and the only reason I started feeding the dental food is because my shepherd is a blood donor and we get it for free. When you have a dog that eats 3x the recommended amount, free food is more than welcome! (Both boys eat a lot for their sizes; Fynn is 25lbs and eats ~2.5-3 cups, Bruce is about 85lbs and eats ~6-7 cups).

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GJBain

Member
Oh I definitely don't care about the quality at this point!

One thing that I've noticed, at least with my dogs, is that they are actually doing better than they have done in years on "crap" food compared to the holistic/premium/raw diets. The boys (standard dachshund and king shepherd) are both on Royal Canin Dental food. They have great muscle tone, great energy, both are maintaining their weights (both have incredibly high metabolisms) and are just overall healthier than they were on other diets. I know they aren't for everyone and the only reason I started feeding the dental food is because my shepherd is a blood donor and we get it for free. When you have a dog that eats 3x the recommended amount, free food is more than welcome! (Both boys eat a lot for their sizes; Fynn is 25lbs and eats ~2.5-3 cups, Bruce is about 85lbs and eats ~6-7 cups).

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That is great that the "crap" food is working out good for you. I always love all the conversations about "what is the best food?" The best food is what works for the dogs situation IMO.
 

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
Boo got sick a few weeks back, requiring a vet trip who is not my regular vet. He wanted me to buy the Hills B/D because it's so bland. I didn't argue with him, just threw out the can when I got home, and fed rice and slippery elm.

I truly will never feed a Hills product.

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nerdrock

New Member
Just coming back to update and saw the response. B/D doesn't come in a wet formula, at least not here.

We did a trial of B/D alone and it did help a bit. I would definitely suggest it for a dog that is not as bad as Sadie.

We added Anipryl (the generic version though), starting at the lowest dose. Again we saw some slight improvement but decided to up the dose slowly to see if we'd get a better response. She was eventually at the highest dose without the improvement we were hoping for so we discontinued the medication and food. She's back to where she was, which is not a whole lot different than when she was on everything. The small improvement was not enough to justify the cost as neither the b/d food or anipryl is cheap.

We have another food and another medication that we're going to try, RC K9 Calm and I can't remember the name of the med off hand. I have both my cats on the feline calm and it's helped with the fighting between them and obsessive grooming that the one was doing. If there is no improvement with those then way be forced to go with a medication that will lightly sedate her.
 

BelowHylan

New Member
So sorry about your Sadie!


Wanted to chime in about Hills, although my experience has been with a cat... So I've tried the raw pray model with my cat a few years ago, and he was willing to starve himself to avoid eating anything raw or anything that did not look like cat food for that matter.... In addition, he is very very picky. i had him on Wellness and he would eat about 50% and I would have to throw the other 50% out... So about two months ago I switched him to Buffalo Blue and it was an instant success.... He was eating well. Until one Saturday morning I woke up to find him in the kitchen with pee all over the floor and him screaming in pain... Rushed to the vet. He had crystals in his urine, as well as high protein and alkaline. The vet prescribed meds and gave us Hills and Royal Canine special food to see which my cat would take to. He said he prefers to keep him on Hills.

I am happy to say Ze Kat is doing much better. We were lucky and he passed whatever was in the system, there was no need to unblock him. He took to Hills very well and continues to get better (this was all very recent). At this point I feel the same way as others who have posted here - is it the best food? Not really. Am I ok with it if it works for my cat? Yes...
 

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
Feeding dry food is one of the reasons cats get crystals, btw. Alot of cats are kibble addicts. That can be changed, if you're willing to put in the time and frustration.
 

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
Any dry food is the absolute worst thing you can feed a cat with urinary issues. Well, its bad for all cats. And if your vet is recommending dry food, you need new vet who actually lnows something about cats.
 

BelowHylan

New Member
Any dry food is the absolute worst thing you can feed a cat with urinary issues. Well, its bad for all cats. And if your vet is recommending dry food, you need new vet who actually lnows something about cats.
I agree about dry food being very bad for *male* cats... Why did you assume that he is on dry? Hills makes cans as well.....
 

DeafDogs

Alberta Region Moderator
Ah well, that's at least alot better :) my cat doesn't eat anything but canned or raw. Dry food just isn't on the menu :)
 

BelowHylan

New Member
Ah well, that's at least alot better :) my cat doesn't eat anything but canned or raw. Dry food just isn't on the menu :)
I wish i could do raw with my cat... As I said, I tried and I tried very hard... He is a weirdo, he could be on the table as I'm eating and he will not even show interest. Will not steal food, etc. He is only interested in the stuff out of a can...
 

nerdrock

New Member
Feeding dry food is one of the reasons cats get crystals, btw. Alot of cats are kibble addicts. That can be changed, if you're willing to put in the time and frustration.
This is absolutely not true.

To keep it very simple, cats, or any animal for that matter, get crystals when the pH of their urine isn't neutral (although there are some types of crystals that can form in neutral urine).

The main reason wet food is recommended rather than dry is so that the cat is consuming more water to dilute the urine and flush the crystals that are breaking down with prescription food and/or antibiotics (if there is an infection present). Dry is not necessarily recommended because cats aren't as inclined to drink like dogs, however this can be overcome by providing running water sources (fountains, taps).

I can certainly go into more detail tomorrow if you'd like, I have about 8 years of canine and feline nutrition, 4 years training in animal husbandry, behaviour, restraint, pharmacology and laboratory procedures (testing, basically). I did take this semester off but next semester I will be starting my 5th year studying animal sciences and medicine. I regularly attend seminars and continuing education courses, as well as manage a busy veterinary practice. I have been involved in pretty much every aspect of the pet industry; from working in a pet store to being a representative and demonstrator of one of the premium food brands (trust me, there's a lot more to them than what most know or are told).

Although lately I've been turning much of my research and learning to reptiles (we have 9 geckos of 3 different species as well as a chameleon), one of my dear old cats had severe urinary problems that caused him to require perinatal urethrostomy surgery so that he could urinate properly.

Almost every minute of my day, I am working with animals and consider myself very lucky to be able to do so.

Sorry for hijacking the hijack!

Back to the point of the last update, we're starting Sadie on a new food (Royal Canin Calm) next week for 4-8 weeks, if no or little improvement then we'll try a different medication. If nothing after that, she'll be going to a local specialist to see if any of her other conditions are playing a role.

I may have a chance to speak with a neurologist on Saturday as one of our other dogs is a blood donor and has an appointment then.
 
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