Stranger Agression.. 1 year old foster

[alexjanic]

About a year ago I found a stray doxie with a puppy. My mother kept the mom, and I kept the puppy. Nomi is the best dog I have ever owned, and I am now obsessed with doxies.

I decided to foster with my local animal shelter, and I currently have a one year old boy who was at the shelter over a month (and at risk for being put down). No one would consider him because he was very unfriendly to strangers, and attempted to bite the assessor at intake. The first night at my house he was terrified, would not let my husband or I touch him. He did not leave his carrier, expect to quickly grab treats from my hand and then dart back in. The next day he had a panic attack while I was walking him and jumped in my lap for comfort. From that moment on he loved me completely, and is a normal friendly cuddle boy. He accepted my husband the same night, and my mother the next day.

The problem is, he HATES strangers. He barks at them, attempts to chase them out of my house, and will snap at people. He has not bitten anyone, but bites near them if they do something he does not like. He will accept treats from anyone at anytime. When he meets someone new he is very afraid but after a few hours I feel like he is no longer afraid, but just wants them to leave. He will eventually get close to a new person, but will snap at them if they do something he doesn't like. I had a friend over and he jumped half way on her lap, half way on mine and when she moved in a way he didn't like he bit in her direction.

He shows none of this behavior to my family, and does wonderfully with other dogs. Do you have any ideas on how to work on this? Truth be told we have accepted that he really is not adoptable, and will likely be staying with us forever, but I really would prefer not to have to kennel/muzzle him when I have guests over. He doesn't have to like strangers, but he cant bite at them.

He also SUCKS Nomi's ears. Its very odd.

 

[Doxie lady]

Thanks for trying to help this baby. From my experience with rescues, it sounds to me like he was never socialized and probably abused in some manner. He needs time to settle in and learn that he won't be hurt.
Look into some of Victoria Stillwell youtubes on positive training and best of luck.
I'd try to get in interested in a toy of his own to help save Nomi's ears. Also sounds like he was taken away from his mom way too early.

 

[alexjanic]

Thank you : ). I am OBSESSED with saving these dogs. My mom currently has a 8 month old black and tan doxie mix who was a few hours from being put down at county that I stormed in and asked to foster. He is completely emaciated, covered in mange, and has a URI. But he is so sweet, so after he gets better I am sure I will be able to find a home for him. This shelter has so many short legged doxie babies that wind up on death row. They do HORRIBLY in the loud environment, and are very fearful until they get into a home. I wish more people would give them a chance, but an unfriendly dog in a tough sell to the general pubic. That being said, my little boy is a pretty tough case.

I absolutely love this bratty dog. I am going to formally adopt him in a few days, there is no way he could handle going to a new home. He was an owner surrender, and he was not potty trained at a year old. I believe they kept him outside 100 percent of the time in the Phoenix sun. I think there is a good chance that he may be Nomi's brother (the other dog in the pictures). I am going to have him DNA tested, so if any of you breeders out there have a recommendation for a company please let me know.

He trusts my husband I completely, but when it comes to strangers I think he has fearful aggression at first (runs away, chases/barks will bite if cornered), but after he gets comfortable with new people I think his issues are completely behavioral. Its almost like he has his people, and when new people "annoy" him, so he bites at them when they do things that he does not like.

I will definitely check out the videos. He is completely happy and comfortable at my house, and has no issues at all when it is just the family. He sleeps under the covers in my bed, and is obsessed with licking people's mouths. Nomi does not seem to mind the ear sucking, but I will see if I can find him a toy to use instead. Usually he and Nomi tag team them and destroy them in record time.

Do you have any tips for seasonal allergies in dogs? His eyes are red, and his skin is very itchy. When we brought him home he had the worst dandruff I had ever seen, but three weeks of quality food, fish oil, and doggie vitamins, and his coat is shiny and perfect. His allergies are still an issue, but I hesitate to take him to the vet unless I absolutely have to. When we took him in to be altered it was a horrible experience for him. I muzzled him, but he was lunging and attempting to bite the tech the entire time.

As a foster county does offer us some support, but they generally do not offer support for anything beyond the basics. My mother and I try to foster as many as the leftover doxies as we can, but we generally end up with the ones that aren't perfect right out the door. I am so glad this community exists as a resource.

 

[Tikki]

When you said fish oil as a supplement, do you mean an Omega 3 softgel? Because if so he should also be given ~200iu Vitamin E as each work
together.

As I have had my mini-monster since before she was weaned, once I had finished with the bottle feeding and weaned her, I added a skin & coat supplement, as well as what I considered necessary puppy supplements. Now she is 15 months old she still has a skin & coat supplement but also a hip & joint one as she tends to prance around on her hind legs when outside in order to see what is going on.

Other additional vitamins/minerals yes. But I am a raw feeder, and I do not mean dehydrated raw food, but raw RAW food. Probably more the BARF diet then the PREY one, but this is something I studied for my previous dog - a mutt of no known origin, when she developed epilepsy.

Raw feeding is not for many people and I do not promote it. It is something I believe in and I do, but everyone to his each choice.

Regarding allergies - if they are seasonal then you can forget about possible food allergies. I do not know if you can get these OTC products where you are, but [I will give you the names - you can Google them to check]. Benylin for children, or Piriton. These can be bought OTC but do not say they are for a dog, say they are for a child. I know that is what friends of mine from a general dog forum have to do.

Please forgive me for a rather long post, but I actually do know what I am talking about.

 

[alexjanic]

Hello Tikki,

Thank you so much for your input. We give all of our dogs "Grizzly Salmon Oil All-Natural Dog Food Supplement" which we buy from amazon. My husband buys dog multivitamins that come in a spray form that we add to the dogs food. I am not sure what is in it, but I will check tonight. I am fairly sure that it contains E vitamins. As far as food, we feed very high quality dry food. I have thought about doing a raw diet for my babies, but it is really not something that I have the time to commit to. With my own dogs and the constant stream of rescues + family and work, I think it would be a little much for me to handle.

I will definitely look into benylin for his allergies. His primary symptom is red eyes and I fed him only chicken and rice for two weeks (no improvement), so I am fairly certain we are dealing with seasonal allergies, which is what the vet thought when he was altered.

 

[Tikki]

I buy all supplements, vitamins and minerals [mine also!] from the US. I can give you their website if you wish. Most are what my angel epileptic dog had were human and not canine supplements etc, and now with Tikva most of hers are also human ones. As I take the same of most of them, it just means different amounts, and with Tikki being so much smaller than my epi girl, her food and extras are reduced according to the difference in size.

Proper raw feeding is not for everyone which is why I do not "promote" it. It took me months trial and error and studying to find the best diet for my epi girl so when little Tikki was weaned I was well used to it - and knew which were the best supplements to make sure that she did not miss out on anything.

I know from previous experience that it is far easier to just put a measure of kibble or tinned food into the dog's bowl but I could never go back to that now.

 

[alexjanic]

Yes, I would be happy to hear any recommendations that you have. My husband and I are obsessed with health and fitness ourselves, and even WORSE when it comes to the dogs, and since we started them on the fish oil we have seen a huge improvement in our dogs coats.

 

[Tikki]

Yes, I would be happy to hear any recommendations that you have. My husband and I are obsessed with health and fitness ourselves, and even WORSE when it comes to the dogs, and since we started them on the fish oil we have seen a huge improvement in our dogs coats.

I do not know if it is permissible to pass on links but check iHerb.com - I think they are in California. Half way across the world from me but were originally recommended by a friend in the UK - not for dogs but for me. However, since then I buy other things apart from vitamins and supplements, and if it were not for the weight limit [I can only order up to 4lb in weight and $40 dollars] I would attack their grocery section as well! Not that I do not now but with the restricted weight and cost I am limited with what I can buy.

I know that in the US orders over a certain value, which is quite low, delivery is free. If you need any help please do not hesitate to send me a PM and I will do my best to assist you.

Being a rather ancient crone who is wheelchair-bound, it is my duty to keep myself as healthy as possible in order to look after my previous furkids and now little Tikva. And after my epi girl, who needed very strong medication for her epilepsy and also supplements to help her liver cope, Phenobarbitol being processed through the liver, I had to make sure that I was always able to look after her. Then with an un-weaned Tikva who needed bottle-feeding every few hours... but she is a rock solid, although very slim little girl, all strong bones and muscles that look as if she is on steroids, and I love her.

 

[Doxie lady]

Yes, I would be happy to hear any recommendations that you have. My husband and I are obsessed with health and fitness ourselves, and even WORSE when it comes to the dogs, and since we started them on the fish oil we have seen a huge improvement in our dogs coats.

I use the same fish oil. I think it's an excellent one. I'd remove chicken from the diet and try a different protein sourse and try a grain free dry. My boys are older so I get Acana senior. I home cook for them also. No plastic bowls, get stainless steel or ceramic.
Clean everything with a "free" detergent and don't use any of the downy fabric softeners with any type of fragrance. Look for mold as it's one of the worst for allergies. Use HEPA filters when you can.
Even wash new dog beds before use as so many are made in China that they contain a ton of chemicals. Same for carpets and furniture, keep everything dust free because of the darn dust mites.
Wash dishes with vinegar and soap that contains the least amount of fragrance.
I have one boy that we had tested for allergies and it's all outside pollens and weeds. I turned down the allergy shots because the vet said 50/50 chance of the shots working. If he scratches we give him half a benadryl. I also use Duoxo shampoo and they have a spray to use. Also, get some fragrance free wipes and wipe off the paws when they come back inside the house.
http://www.duoxo.com/
Good luck. I know what you mean about being obsessed with these great little dogs.

 

[alexjanic]

I love that fish oil. I think it makes a HUGE difference. I do not feed them chicken and rice all of the time, just when I need to check for allergies or someone is sick. I will have to go through everything to see if I can find anything, but living in Arizona is rough. The dogs track in so much dust. It doesn't matter how often I clean they are always bringing it back in the house! I have attached a picture of my female Nomi, and Link is pictured above. Any ideas what they are mixed with? I know Nomi's mom is a full doxie, but based on Nomi and Links weight I dont think dad was a Chihuahua. Its also possible they are from the same litter. They both look very different then most of the doxie mixes I have met.
http://imgur.com/a/iWTuM

I use the same fish oil. I think it's an excellent one. I'd remove chicken from the diet and try a different protein sourse and try a grain free dry. My boys are older so I get Acana senior. I home cook for them also. No plastic bowls, get stainless steel or ceramic.
Clean everything with a "free" detergent and don't use any of the downy fabric softeners with any type of fragrance. Look for mold as it's one of the worst for allergies. Use HEPA filters when you can.
Even wash new dog beds before use as so many are made in China that they contain a ton of chemicals. Same for carpets and furniture, keep everything dust free because of the darn dust mites.
Wash dishes with vinegar and soap that contains the least amount of fragrance.
I have one boy that we had tested for allergies and it's all outside pollens and weeds. I turned down the allergy shots because the vet said 50/50 chance of the shots working. If he scratches we give him half a benadryl. I also use Duoxo shampoo and they have a spray to use. Also, get some fragrance free wipes and wipe off the paws when they come back inside the house.
http://www.duoxo.com/
Good luck. I know what you mean about being obsessed with these great little dogs.

 

[Karen]

Awe! What a cutie!! It's great you are going to formally adopt him
Charlie has gotten to be like that too He was socialized (puppy school and out to public places a few times a week) and never abused but he barks at people and dogs he doesn't know...A LOT. If we are with a group of dogs, like at a wiener race, he is fine...but if we are on a walk and one appears he loses it. We are looking into a training approach called CARE and hopefully it will help him out a little. Maybe you could look into that too.

 

[Tikki]

The more I look at the second picture in the OP, the more that little one looks like Tikva - apart from colouring - and she is a Dachshund/Minpin cross. The ear size and set, the slightly wider skull and shorter face, and also the [then] slightly longer front legs.

If he is, indeed, a cross between those breeds, it could explain his reactions to strangers. Apart from his previous owner/s. Tikki, who has only ever been with me since before she was even weaned, has similar reactions and I have no idea why. The only difference is that she will not try to go for anyone or snap in their direction - she will be hiding at the side of my chair!

As for sucking Nomi's ears - does Nomi complain? I had to give up wearing earrings when Tikva was tiny and I was bottle feeding her, and she will, at times, still suck my thumb if she is in a sucking mood... and I still do not wear earrings.

I would be only too happy to give what information I have regarding supplements but prefer not to do so on the open forum, so if anyone is interested in what I use and from where, I think it best if they click on Inbox to open an conversation, which others can join in if they want.

One thing - I have no interest in the supplier of where I purchase things. I just know what is good for both Tikva and for me, and where they are available.

 

[Wandering Man]

We think Frank is allergic to the beef, or something in the Purina brand dog foods. We give him chicken, and that helps.

Still there are seasonal allergens. When he starts scratching or licking, we know it is time to give him a baby Benadryl (the vet's recommendation). It seems to help. We have also started bathing both of the dogs once a month, or whenever they begin scratching. The baths also help. We had been told years ago that you shouldn't bathe dachshunds very often, so we went for a while with semi-annual bathing. The monthly baths seems to work out better for the dogs and for us.

 

[alexjanic]

Hello Karen,
He is officially mine : ) I will look into training. My vet prescribed him a medication to use when he's going to be in stressful situations. He is so wonderful with my family, but has not gotten any better with strangers. He would 100 percent bite anyone he doesn't know that attempted to touch him. He is just so afraid : (

Awe! What a cutie!! It's great you are going to formally adopt him
Charlie has gotten to be like that too He was socialized (puppy school and out to public places a few times a week) and never abused but he barks at people and dogs he doesn't know...A LOT. If we are with a group of dogs, like at a wiener race, he is fine...but if we are on a walk and one appears he loses it. We are looking into a training approach called CARE and hopefully it will help him out a little. Maybe you could look into that too.

 

[alexjanic]

Definitely possible that he is part Minpin. At this point its pretty clear to me that his agresstion is from fear. He is just terrified of strangers until he accepts someone as "part of the pack" he will attack them if they come too close. The ear sucking thing has gotten... strange. Nomi seems okay with it, and he will suck her ears any chance he gets. He constantly attempts to put my jaw in his mouth, which I have been working on with him. I thought he wanted to chew on me, but he actually is trying to suck on me as well! Now he goes right for my wrist when I cuddle with him, and will suck on it gently if I allow him. Its very strange. He has no interest in sucking on blankets on toys, just animals and people.

The more I look at the second picture in the OP, the more that little one looks like Tikva - apart from colouring - and she is a Dachshund/Minpin cross. The ear size and set, the slightly wider skull and shorter face, and also the [then] slightly longer front legs.

If he is, indeed, a cross between those breeds, it could explain his reactions to strangers. Apart from his previous owner/s. Tikki, who has only ever been with me since before she was even weaned, has similar reactions and I have no idea why. The only difference is that she will not try to go for anyone or snap in their direction - she will be hiding at the side of my chair!

As for sucking Nomi's ears - does Nomi complain? I had to give up wearing earrings when Tikva was tiny and I was bottle feeding her, and she will, at times, still suck my thumb if she is in a sucking mood... and I still do not wear earrings.

I would be only too happy to give what information I have regarding supplements but prefer not to do so on the open forum, so if anyone is interested in what I use and from where, I think it best if they click on Inbox to open an conversation, which others can join in if they want.

One thing - I have no interest in the supplier of where I purchase things. I just know what is good for both Tikva and for me, and where they are available.

 

[Tikki]

Hello Karen,
He is officially mine : ) I will look into training. My vet prescribed him a medication to use when he's going to be in stressful situations. He is so wonderful with my family, but has not gotten any better with strangers. He would 100 percent bite anyone he doesn't know that attempted to touch him. He is just so afraid : (

I am so pleased to hear that he is officially yours now!

Definitely possible that he is part Minpin. At this point its pretty clear to me that his agresstion is from fear. He is just terrified of strangers until he accepts someone as "part of the pack" he will attack them if they come too close. The ear sucking thing has gotten... strange. Nomi seems okay with it, and he will suck her ears any chance he gets. He constantly attempts to put my jaw in his mouth, which I have been working on with him. I thought he wanted to chew on me, but he actually is trying to suck on me as well! Now he goes right for my wrist when I cuddle with him, and will suck on it gently if I allow him. Its very strange. He has no interest in sucking on blankets on toys, just animals and people.

When you have a crossbreed you either get the best of worst of either breeds. Tikva was 17 months-old yesterday and she is still wary of strangers - not frightened but wary - but once I let them into the house she will slowly go up to them. Her thought process seeming to be is that if I let them come in they must be OK.

But I have one rule with strangers. Do not look at her, especially do not try to look into her eyes. Do not try to approach her, let her approach you. And do not raise a hand over her or put a hand over her head. Not that she has ever been hit but if she does not know someone she seems to have an inbuilt dislike of that, but she will accept anyone who does what I ask, and then is very happy with whoever it is. She also remembers who is friend or stranger.

Tikva does not suck as such although when I let her out of her crate in the morning she takes a flying leap onto my [very high] bed for a cuddle, and my ears and neck get a thorough licking! Oh, and I still do not wear earings. As for my hands - she does not try to suck them but she mouths them with pretend bites if she gets a chance, usually when she gets over-excited when I get down on the floor to play with her. Considering the strength of her jaws and teeth she could really hurt, but she does not even leave a mark - and being old I bruise easily.

Nurture versus Nature. As Tikva having been with me since she was 3 weeks-old it cannot be nurture, therefore being a Doxie/Minpin cross it is obviously in her genes to act as she does.

You say that "He is just terrified of strangers until he accepts someone as "part of the pack" he will attack them if they come too close." - my suggestion is do what I do - do not let a stranger come too close until your little one is ready to accept them.

Good luck and please keep us updated on how things go.

 

[alexjanic]

To be honest I think its likely that he is half doxie, and half a bunch of random things. I think Tikva's behavior with strangers is what I am hoping to achieve with him. The problem with Link is that his rules are really dangerous. Initially its easy because he makes it very clear he will bite you if you touch him but when he starts getting used to a new person the problems begin. As he begins to adjust, it takes DAYS of him coming up to the person, sitting on the person's lab, and licking the persons face before he is comfortable with them. During this time his body language and behavior indicate that he is friendly, but he will snap at or bite the person if they move or touch him. This is so dangerous, because people don't often believe me when I explain this. They think because they like dogs/or are good with dogs that they can pet him when he comes up to them because his body language isn't tense. At this point I just give him medication when people come over and keep him muzzled or locked away. My little girl is a lot like Tikva, so I just have people ignore her. She will eventually warm up, and while she is often unfriendly I know she is not going to bite anyone.

As far as the sucking is concerned, I think I just have to accept that he had a bad puppyhood, and has some issues. He does EXACTLY the same thing with pretending to bite. It is so frustrating! I know he is playing, but he will often get so excited, jump around, and snag a tooth on my arm and scratch me!

Also, I would love to see a picture of Tikva. Is she the dog in your profile picture?

I am so pleased to hear that he is officially yours now!



When you have a crossbreed you either get the best of worst of either breeds. Tikva was 17 months-old yesterday and she is still wary of strangers - not frightened but wary - but once I let them into the house she will slowly go up to them. Her thought process seeming to be is that if I let them come in they must be OK.

But I have one rule with strangers. Do not look at her, especially do not try to look into her eyes. Do not try to approach her, let her approach you. And do not raise a hand over her or put a hand over her head. Not that she has ever been hit but if she does not know someone she seems to have an inbuilt dislike of that, but she will accept anyone who does what I ask, and then is very happy with whoever it is. She also remembers who is friend or stranger.

Tikva does not suck as such although when I let her out of her crate in the morning she takes a flying leap onto my [very high] bed for a cuddle, and my ears and neck get a thorough licking! Oh, and I still do not wear earings. As for my hands - she does not try to suck them but she mouths them with pretend bites if she gets a chance, usually when she gets over-excited when I get down on the floor to play with her. Considering the strength of her jaws and teeth she could really hurt, but she does not even leave a mark - and being old I bruise easily.

Nurture versus Nature. As Tikva having been with me since she was 3 weeks-old it cannot be nurture, therefore being a Doxie/Minpin cross it is obviously in her genes to act as she does.

You say that "He is just terrified of strangers until he accepts someone as "part of the pack" he will attack them if they come too close." - my suggestion is do what I do - do not let a stranger come too close until your little one is ready to accept them.

Good luck and please keep us updated on how things go.

 

[Tikki]

Yes, that is my Tikva - taken some months ago and she looks more grown-up now, although she is still very puppy-ish at times. Her ears look quite big in that avatar picture but I think that was the angle I took the photograph as they are much more like that second picture in your OP. I really must put some new batteries in my camera and keep it at hand to try and catch some decent photographs of her.

I am not sure what she weighs - she was 6kilos 800gms on 29 September and will be weighed again on or about 29 December when my vet comes to give her the three-monthly Parkworm shot. I think she has gained a bit although I have not increased her food and she gets the same amount of exercise - possibly more now as it is not so diabolically hot so she is outside rushing around more. Solid bone and muscle with no fat on her, a high tuck and a waist to die for!

Tik has never been unfriendly towards people although there are certain people/types of people who, if she sees them walk past, she will bark at them as if to say "I know you do not like me" - strangely enough they are the same ones that my epi girl used to bark at. Strange because I had to have my epi girl euthanised on 1 April last year and Tik was born about six weeks later.

She is wonderful with small children - one of my neighbours frequently has one or other of her adult children and grandchildren staying for the weekend, and the little ones always want to come and see Tikva. The number of times she has had anything up to half a dozen littlies [aged from 2 - 6] all over her - she just lies flat and lets them.

I think you are going to have to take it very slowly with Link but I am sure that he will eventually learn to accept strangers. However, I am not too happy about the idea of medicating him and especially putting a muzzle on him. Can you put him in a room with a baby gate across it so he can see strangers and get used to people he does not know in your home? If he knows there are people but cannot see them as he has been shut away, that could easily reinforce the idea that strangers are bad, hence the biting threat.

 

[Tikki]

Going back to my rule about Tikva and strangers [post #16] - the guy who does all outside and inside work for me [Tikva knows him and does lovie-dovies] came about an hour ago with someone he has temporarily employed to help him. Tikva had not seen him before and she was rather wary, but as soon as I said to her, in English, 'this is Alex and he is a friend', Alex having followed my rules, within a couple of minute she went up to him asking to be petted.

She keeps going outside to check on him but is fine as my guy has gone to do some other work for a couple of hours so Alex, who is Russian, is here by himself.

Yes he was a total stranger but after her initial wariness and barking 'stranger, stranger', hiding behind me, she has accepted him. I have not shut the door so she can go out to check he is still here, but she is not bothering him and they both seem to have accepted each other.

Had he not done what I asked him, my rules about strangers, Tikva would not have been happy about him being outside.

 

[Aln]

About a year ago I found a stray doxie with a puppy. My mother kept the mom, and I kept the puppy. Nomi is the best dog I have ever owned, and I am now obsessed with doxies.

I decided to foster with my local animal shelter, and I currently have a one year old boy who was at the shelter over a month (and at risk for being put down). No one would consider him because he was very unfriendly to strangers, and attempted to bite the assessor at intake. The first night at my house he was terrified, would not let my husband or I touch him. He did not leave his carrier, expect to quickly grab treats from my hand and then dart back in. The next day he had a panic attack while I was walking him and jumped in my lap for comfort. From that moment on he loved me completely, and is a normal friendly cuddle boy. He accepted my husband the same night, and my mother the next day.

The problem is, he HATES strangers. He barks at them, attempts to chase them out of my house, and will snap at people. He has not bitten anyone, but bites near them if they do something he does not like. He will accept treats from anyone at anytime. When he meets someone new he is very afraid but after a few hours I feel like he is no longer afraid, but just wants them to leave. He will eventually get close to a new person, but will snap at them if they do something he doesn't like. I had a friend over and he jumped half way on her lap, half way on mine and when she moved in a way he didn't like he bit in her direction.

He shows none of this behavior to my family, and does wonderfully with other dogs. Do you have any ideas on how to work on this? Truth be told we have accepted that he really is not adoptable, and will likely be staying with us forever, but I really would prefer not to have to kennel/muzzle him when I have guests over. He doesn't have to like strangers, but he cant bite at them.

He also SUCKS Nomi's ears. Its very odd.


View attachment 1559 View attachment 1560

We rescued a teckel standard dachshund who had the same issues in fact she did bite my mum without any warning and went for several other people but was fine with us so we had to return her back to the rescue I found on Internet what it could be when they are like this and I passed it on to the rescue where they are now gonna have her checked by vet I have attached the screen shot for u to look at ok x